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Why does the downtown theater show such crappy movies?
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 9:49am.
I woke up this mornng with a hankering to get dressed up and go downtown to see a movie tonight, so I look at the paper to see what's playing.
Blech!
I have a choice between:
Hancock
or
Wanted
or
Wall-E
or
Get Smart
or
Love Guru
or
Incredible Hulk
or
Kung Fu Panda
or
Indiana Jones: The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
Before this theater opened, I did some reading, and discovered that films that get the widest distribution and make the most dough are made for 16-year-old boys. Seems pretty spot-on.
Damn.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 10:55am.
(P.S. I think you answered your own question, except, where are all the 16-year-old boys downtown?)
Sundown in the City?
Speaking of which, this letter to the editor snuck by me a couple of weeks ago, and didn't get remarked upon here. Brian Moran is a KPD officer and has just been re-elected state president of the FOP.
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Knoxville News Sentinel (TN) - June 20, 2008
Recently while working during Sundown in the City, I had three parents approach me stating they had to find their children, one as young as 3 years old. The other two were 13-year-old girls.
To my amazement, when I asked the parents why they would bring their children to this event, one actually said that Sundown is for all ages.
I have had to work this so-called family event since it started, and I would submit to you that it is not a safe environment for children — or teenagers, for that matter.
Every single week, the police deal not only with drunken and disorderly adults but also underage drinkers.
These are not just on the Sundown in the City site but also in the parking lots and garages around the downtown area.
There is absolutely no excuse for any parent to have a small child in a crowd of thousands of drunks or to drop off their teenage children to let them roam the crowd of drunks without supervision.
This is most certainly not a family event and is not for all ages.
Add to all this the fact that a few years ago alcohol started being served at the Dogwood Arts Festival, another so-called family event, and now the fact that the powers that be are considering giving a beer license to Thompson-Boling Arena at the University of Tennessee, I would again submit that family events are on the way out.
In addition, we have what was a beautifully remodeled Tennessee Theatre that has now turned into a venue for booze during out-of-control concerts.
When did it become necessary to have alcohol at an event to make it a good event, and when did it become acceptable for parents to bring their children to events where they are surrounded by alcohol and drugs?
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 10:22am.
I would guess it's because the theater won't stay open unless it makes money (or is further subsidized by the city), and they probably figure there's still not enough hipsters living downtown to support an all Sundance art film multiplex.
The movies you list are typical Hollywood summer movies that make money. Movies like the Kite Runner generally don't. It would be nice to have an art theater downtown, but until there's a large enough population of moviegoers with that mindset willing to support such a theater, your choice is going to be a (hopefully) self-sustaining theater that has to show Hollywood films in order to be self-sustaining, or an art theater that's forever subsidized by the public like the East Knox Farmer's Market, the convention center or the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.*
*It was still being heavily subsidized by the County last time I checked. If that is no longer the case I would happily withdraw that last example.
Submitted by R. Neal on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 10:28am.
See previous remark re. 16-year-old movie goers downtown.
I guess they are trying to draw in folks from the 'burbs who might bring their kids?
At any rate, the (ironically named) Downtown West Cinema does pretty good business with high-profile arthouse/indie films. The ones I have been to are packed on opening days.
And I'm guessing, just looking around, they aren't your typical West Knox moviegoer demographic, so they mostly came from somewhere else and could just as easily come from somewhere else to (the real) downtown. Except for the parking. Oh my God, the parking! (What's that you say? There's abundant free parking downtown? Who knew?)
Also, don't they have multiple screens? Why couldn't they just set one of them up (like Downtown West) for arthouse/indie films and see what happens? They might be surprised.
Submitted by Johnny Ringo on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 10:40am.
It might be a question of operating costs and amortization. The Downtown West cinema is located on land that currently isn't all that valuable (see the occupancy rate at the strip mall across the street) especially in comparison with the prime downtown property where the new theater is located. Plus I wuld imagine that the cost of building the Downtown West cinema has been recouped by now, so the only cost of operating the place is the day-to-day cost of keeping the doors open.
Maybe in a few years when Regal's investment in the downtown theater has been recovered they will feel more free to show more interesting stuff. For now, I suspect they are in a profit-making mode.
Submitted by R. Neal on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 10:46am.
All good points.
For some reason, this reminds me of a great marketing lesson from an IBM old timer.
Seems a local transit authority hired an MBA consultant right out of school to study whether they needed to add a train stop at this particular location. The consultant reported back that no, they didn't need to add a stop there because he went down there every day for a week and stood around all day and never once saw anyone waiting to catch the train.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 11:00am.
Maybe in a few years when Regal's investment in the downtown theater has been recovered they will feel more free to show more interesting stuff. For now, I suspect they are in a profit-making mode.
Regal's investment is pretty minimal, isn't it? The city is on the hook for the building. Regal's investment, iirc, is in the furnishings -- seats and curtains and other portable stuff they could sell or pack up and take with them if they pulled out.
re: RNeals comment...agree. Why not have one screen showing Indie flicks?
Threadjack...re: the "new" farmers market...why the hell is it only open 1 day a week for 3 hours? (TR 4-7pm). Who has time to visit it during that time period in the middle of the week?
I thought we would go to this theater all the time. We never go - because every time we think about going to the movies, this is the crap that's on.
Like several of you, I don't understand why they can't take one auditorium (I believe the small one is only about 100 seats) and show "art" films ("art" in quotations because a lot of the movies I want to see aren't even art movies; they're just movies for grownups).
There's clearly a market for it. My only guess is that they need/want to keep filling up DW and figure attendance there will drop off if they show those moves DT.
But in our case it's more like we won't see the movie in the theater at all; we'll just wait for the DVD.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 11:28am.
Rachel, I know you are a big library person, so I'll address this open question to you:
Why isn't the library showing movie classics on Market Square this summer? I've been given to understand that it's because Regal objected to the "competition." Although my source is very reliable, I find it hard to believe that anybody jonesing to see "Wanted" would be seduced into watching "The African Queen" for free on Market Square instead.
So that takes me back to my original question: does Regal have thepower to dictate what happens downtown?
I left Friends of the Library over a year ago, so I'm out of that loop now. But I thought the library was going back to Movies on Market Square Fridays this fall (they did Thursdays last fall to placate Regal).
At any rate, "Movies" has always been a fall, not a summer, deal.
Submitted by CathyMcCaughan on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 11:20am.
The shiny, new theater downtown is showing first run, popular movies? Horrors! Yes, they should devote a screen or two to independent films, but it could be so much worse. It could be a grungy dollar theater.
Sundown is NOT family friendly. I was expecting something similar to Memphis in May and found a moshpit of smoking teens. Well, most of them were just using cigarettes as fashion accessories, but it was still a hill of fire ants.
Submitted by StaceyDiamond on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 2:57pm.
I figured Moran was a disgruntled cop or security guard, but he did not say that in his letter. What a jerk. There are annoying people at Sundown, but I've never seen anyone scary or out of control in 10 years. As for the theatre, I don't think it was meant to cater to the artsy crowd. Some of its success seems to be that it draws teens and families from the burbs. If its OK for the burb theatres to carry crap it should be OK for the Riveria.
That said, currently I would not pay 8.50$ for any movie, that's 2 gallons of gas or a couple of local concerts.
Also, I wish that people would use the term "child friendly" when referring to safe or fun for kids. To some people "family" events may be them and their drunk uncle, lesbian grandma or whatever.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 4:56pm.
Brian Moran is one of the best cops I have ever met. He's smart and fearless and has never hesitated to speak his mind, even if it means taking on a sacred cow.
That's probably why he's president of the Tennessee Fraternal Order of Police.
I cannot think of anybody I'd rather have get my back than Brian. I don't agree with him about every single issue -- he lobbied hard for the deputies' pension reform, for example -- but he always does a good job of defending the positions he takes, and he has a reputation as a standup guy. His views of Sundown should not be dismissed lightly.
Submitted by RayCapps on Mon, 2008/07/07 - 8:10am.
but I disagree strongly with his opinion of Sundown. My daughter (age 7) and I just almost "regulars" at Sundown. If I like what I hear of one of the announced bands on YouTube or MySpace, then it's a Thursday Night father-daughter outing in the offing. Was it last year that Brazil Girls came through? That one concert was probably the best musical experience in her life. This year, her favorite has been the Presidents of the United States.
There are some folks there who have had a few too many - almost certainly before they even got there. There are some teenagers being teenagers there, but nothing that I would elevate to the level of "rowdy" by teenager standards. By old fogie like me standards, yes, a little rowdy. By me at 16 or 17 standards? Not even close to rowdy. If you're packing the kids, there are some survival tips for Sundown that I share with my fellow mommies and daddies.
1. Go Early. We target 6:00pm or before.
2. Hit the souvenir stands and shops immediately or not at all.
3. Load up right away on child comfort foods and beverages.
4. Bring folding chairs.
5. Stake out a spot fairly near the front but well off the yellow tape and in the center away from the pedestrian aisles.
6. Hit the port-a-johns early... and repeat just as the crowds start to swell.
7. Once the crowds are there, stay in the area you've staked out until you leave. The pedestrian aisles and the dance area beyond the yellow tape can be a bit much for young children.
8. You won't see the band. Your child won't see the band. Accept it. Watch the child singing and dancing and snacking and realize music can be fun just being heard.
9. Sundown has unofficial "zones." Remember this, learn them, abide by them, and everyone from unaccompanied teenagers to grandparents towing toddlers can have a great time.
As for the Downtown Movies, unless we're going to I-Max or a drive-in, I pretty well always take my girl to the downtown cinema. They usually have at least one or two kid friendly films showing, we can hit the candy bins at Mast and do a pizza at Tomato Head. She even likes the escalator ride up from the State Street garage. I admit I'm not an art film guy, or even a movie guy. When I want art, I see a concert or a play - or combine the two and catch an opera. I'm just along for the daddy date at the movies. For that reason, I'm content to let Regal follow whatever business model they believe makes the most sense for that site. They're the theater business experts, not me. I'm just happy we have one downtown.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 4:51pm.
Wall-E is a great film. An ET for a new generation. I think folks of all ages would actually really like this film.
Get Smart is very stupid and not worth seeing.
Hancock is a great film, as well. I mean, it is not a blockbuster that will win any awards but it is not just a stupid film for teenage boys, by any stretch.
How about this? Step outside your box and see a film made for the masses - you might enjoy yourself.
- An actual downtown resident who supports the Regal and it's choices
Get Smart was a lot more fun than I was expecting. Ebert really liked it too.
Wall-E is on my want-to-see list and I'll give Hancock a shot if it works out that I want to see a movie when it's showing.
Given all that, I'm still really disappointed with the selection. I had hoped that we'd get one art screen out of the deal. Columbia, SC has the theater we need. Their 77 seats would fit in just about any storefront without a whole lot more build-out than the Tennessee Stage Company is doing on Market Square this weekend for Shakespeare on the Square. Getting memberships and donations to finance the rent, hardware and movies would be the challenging part, particularly going into competition with the mayor.
Submitted by djuggler on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 9:29pm.
I have to disagree on Get Smart. It was brilliantly done! If you ever watched the original tv series, you'll fall out of your chair laughing. I was in tears at points. If you have never seen the tv series, it is still hilarious. This is not an Airplane movie. It has its goofy moments but that's simply true to the character. The cameo is well done. References to the tv series are throughout the movie but not at all over played. I'd pay to see Get Smart in the theater a 2nd time.
I've now seen Wall-E twice and give it thumbs up. It definitely carries some messages that justifiably have some conservatives up in arms such as a couple of in-your-face pokes at GW. The story's underlying message is also not subtle. Overall, its a good, fun story and worth the watch.
Haven't seen Hancock yet but am looking forward to taking my wife out on a date for it.
Submitted by Factchecker on Sat, 2008/07/05 - 6:21pm.
I'm glad Betty asked. The last time the Riviera topic came up here, I was pretty skeptical about it. We never were able to find a movie we wanted to see, except once when the movie left after a week and before we could see it. I also questioned whether 6 screens or whatever would be a quality experience. And I, too, still think they need a screen devoted to indie flicks. However, we finally saw our first flick there last Sunday-- Wall-E. I agree with the poster above: It is wonderful. I've even thought about it a lot more in the last few days. Like Cars and other Pixar films, a lot of tangential social questions are raised (read: it's a little moralistic, but in a very good way). I liked ET in its day, but I don't think it endures all that well. I hope Wall-E does much better in that regard. As they say, go!
Regarding the theater itself, I was very pleasantly surprised. From the Axelerator hand dryers in the rest rooms to the screen quality, it was first rate. I don't know if all the screens are equally large (doubt they could be), but I don't know how they squeezed even one in as large as the screen that was showing Wall-E. Along with the "stadium" angle, the visual quality was such that it looked like you could "fall in" to the screen when there were shots of things like outer space. The sound quality was very good, but of course as always, we had to stuff kleenex into our ears due to the excessive volume level. I'm still waiting for OSHA or a class action suit to force movie theaters to lower the SPL to a safe level. They are really stuck on thinking louder is better. How stupid. I think they're seriously causing people to go deaf, and I know about this stuff, trust me.
Also, I pretty much agree w/ Mr. Moran (he's not one of those "morans") re Sundown. 'Nuff said there.
I'm not much of a movie goer, but Hancock sounds pretty good. How can they go wrong with Will Smith, Charlize Theron, and Jason Bateman. Then there's Peter Berg as the director. I think Will Smith is one of the best actors of his generation.
Submitted by Carole Borges on Sun, 2008/07/06 - 10:03am.
I also find it hard sometimes to find the kind of movies I like downtown, but that doesn't diminish the fact that I am thrilled to have the Stadium there on Gay Street. I'm always surprised to see how many people utilize it, and the fact that families are actually coming downtown makes me glad.
I love the feeling of walking into a downtown movie. I guess it satisfies my inner-urban. It's also a very nice facility with great seats. I thought the sound was a bit lower than some I've been to. I know most people are deaf now, but for those of us who aren't, the high decibels can be very painful.
I hope they someday do set aside one of the theaters for independent films. I think they'd even find it profitable. In the meantime though I love the new theater and go there much more often than I ever did Downtown West.
Submitted by Somebody on Sun, 2008/07/06 - 10:35am.
Unbelievable! The downtown cinema is playing "summer blockbuster" movies! Those will never appeal to the tragically hip or the middle-aged curmdgeonly crowd! They should be ashamed.
Even more unbelievable! A police officer thinks families should stay away from public events where alcohol is available! Some adults might drink too much! Some teenagers might try to get some of that fire water for themselves!
Submitted by James Calloway (not verified) on Sun, 2008/07/06 - 6:44pm.
Betty, you just practically named last week's Top 10. Why would the Riviera voluntarily screen smaller audience ? And why would we want them to do so, considering the goal is to draw the masses downtown.
If they wanted to screen 1 I'd say No Problem, but more than that would be a waste of space downtown. Most movie-goers are wanting to see the latest adventures of the Dark Knight and Indy and could really give a damn about 9/10 of the movies at Downtown West.
Submitted by James Calloway (not verified) on Sun, 2008/07/06 - 6:49pm.
I see both types. I've been a big movie fan and have for a long time.. even with a 16 mo. old. Her first movie - at 5 weeks - was Blades Of Glory if any of you wish to weep for humanity or call some nimrod from whatever governmental organization keeps tabs on parents.
Submitted by Bbeanster on Sun, 2008/07/06 - 7:41pm.
Knock yourself -- and your kid -- out. Macht nicht to me (unless I happen to be sitting behind you when the baby decides to register indignation at being forcefed your cinematic choice of the evening). I took my kids to see Blazing Saddles and The Jerk at the drive-in. Warped them, it did.
Actually, I don't have a clue what Blades of Glory even was, so it's OK with me that I saved $10 and two hours (I'm in a demographic that makes me understand that time is a finite thing, Jay, so two hours wasted here and two more squandered there - pretty soon you're cutting into my life expectancy).
Meanwhile, I'm still on the lookout for a downtown movie I'd like to see.
* Looked Blades of Glory up on Rotten Tomatoes -- here's the verdict:
"CONSENSUS: With a talented cast, Blades of Glory successfully milks its one-joke premise into a feature-length comedy"
Submitted by James Calloway (not verified) on Sun, 2008/07/06 - 8:01pm.
But I couldn't resist.
Personally, the thing I detest these days is the # of PG-13 vs. R films made. Die Hard IV being the most prominent example. I too am being demographic'd out.
When I worked at the Grove theater, we wanted to get documentary and art house film for the local egg heads. Our company just couldn't get a deal. Partly, the big studios wanted us to take the films they knew were gonna take to also get the better preforming films. There was also the tactic of making us keep movies as long as possible to keep the other studios films from getting a screen.
Heck, even Atlanta has trouble keeping an art house screen open.
But WALL-e is a fine movie. Pixar shows its the master of computer animated films and worth paying full price.
Get Smart isnt perfect, but a decently funny movie with some cute sight gags, and old time fans will love the Easter eggs in the movie(in this case, Easter eggs are props, sight gags or cameos in the movie)
Hancock was decent, and a pretty good send up of the superHero movie, but I think the plot holes and storyline was a bit off and some times just didnt make sense and broke its own rules.
Wanted is a great action movie, if you didnt read the original comic book/ graphic novel. I didnt like the changes, but on its own, its a fine shoot em up and I can look at Angelina all day..
Submitted by rocketsquirrel on Mon, 2008/07/07 - 5:49am.
guess we're just low class, non-artsy, mindless robots, but we've seen summer blockbusters and other good movies there...Spyderwick Chronicles comes to mind, for one.
Took the 9 year old and his friend to see Indiana Jones...a bit formula, but the boys thoroughly enjoyed it. Then we walked over to Marble Slab, got some 'scream, and had a good day. With the movie stub, parking was free.
I love the Riviera. I guess there may be a market for an art film house, but I know the Terrace Tap didn't end up making it, and they served drinks. Remember taking Faith there on a date in 1993 to see "Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill."
No reason to diss a mass-market movie house just because it doesn't ascribe to a certain niche market. We need a little mass market downtown, don't we?
Submitted by Rigsby Werner (not verified) on Mon, 2008/07/07 - 5:55pm.
we've got a city government that will throw money around downtown like a drunker sailor and a family like the Haslam clan that will buy up the obligations on a deal that will never really make them a dime.
When the curtain comes down on the downtown cinema or when the shows really aren't something you're interested in, realize that downtown theatres really don't work in real downtowns anyway. The Church Street cinemas never lasted very long on downtown Nashville either.
"he project covers eight city blocks in total, with restored historic buildings, a 15-story modern office tower, top-notch apartments, prestigious offices, popular restaurants and gathering places. In all, more than two million square feet connected by skywalks, corridors and trolley stations make Peabody Place a virtual city within a city...At the heart of it all is Peabody Place Retail & Entertainment Center. The Center, completed in fall 2001, was designed to be reminiscent of a town square, which was rediscovered, refurbished and topped with the largest skylight in Tennessee to create an enclosed town square. At night, the lighting systems create the atmosphere that the Center really is outdoors, with abundant sidewalk cafes and other seating. The Center boasts over 300,000 square feet of leasable retail space and is directly connected to approximately 3,000 parking spaces. It is also located immediately adjacent to the historic Peabody Hotel."
Skywalks? A town square covered in glass? Adjacent to a big hotel? Why didn't Knoxville think of that?
Submitted by SFrazier (not verified) on Tue, 2008/07/08 - 2:57pm.
The 22-screen Malco Muvico theater complex in Memphis closed Sunday after seven years in business. It's sad, but I don't think they showed "art" films on any of those 22 screens, not that that would have saved it. The "art" place is Studio on the Square in Midtown, which has I think only 5 screens but is doing a booming business. John Beifuss of The Commercial Appeal has a good article about the downtown theater closing at commercialappeal.com
Submitted by CathyMcCaughan on Mon, 2008/07/07 - 9:39pm.
The Peabody is located in downtown Memphis. That is the edge of the city. Nobody in Memphis considers the downtown area the "center" of the city. If you WALK too far out of downtown Memphis, you are in another state! Other areas are much more heavily utilized and there are a lot of people who never, ever go downtown.
I was in Memphis a few weeks ago. Peabody Place seems to be struggling. I noted a few closed stores. There are fun things to do in downtown Memphis, but downtown is a long way from where most of the target audience lives, with a lot of theaters, malls, etc. in between. Special events like concerts and sporting events (Auto Zone Field, Fed Ex Forum) are the best draws. There are a few nice/fun restaurants and the clubs on Beale Street (which always seem to appeal more to tourists than Memphians). But, a movie theater combined with a cluster of a few mall-type stores in downtown Memphis has some obstacles.
I believe Chattanooga's downtown movie theater is still doing well.
In Knoxville, there are (hopefully) plenty enough people within a few miles of downtown to support a first-run movie theater. These are people who will go downtown instead of heading west or to the East Town area. This is different (and maybe better) than Memphis or Chattanooga. Plus, there are other things to see and do downtown, including a few good places to eat before or after.
Regal is trying to make a profit. The problem with putting one 'art' film at the downtown Regal is which one do you choose that will draw enough and not simply cannibalize Downtown West, thus screwing up the 'art' film center which seems to be doing ok. I suspect Regal knows based on the numbers at Downtown West (and the zillions of other theaters Regal owns) what sells. Here's hoping they make it work.
Submitted by longpauses on Tue, 2008/07/08 - 9:58am.
I've heard from a reliable source that The Riviera is Regal's second best money-earner (profit-per-screen) in the state, trailing only the Pinnacle at Turkey Creek. So, apparently their programming works. The bad news is that their success means they're unlikely to turn over any screens to art fare.
Submitted by Michael on Tue, 2008/07/08 - 11:45am.
Name one art house in the United States that is new construction. Inevitably, in every town (including Knoxville) they are relegated to cinemas that were unable to compete on the commercial level and passed out of favor. Regal's already getting the indy watchers at Downtown West. Why would they split the audience and take away the only product that keeps that theater open
I'd like to see more indy/arthouse stuff downtown, too. But I ain't holding my breath. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective.
~m.
Submitted by Regal Beagle (not verified) on Tue, 2008/07/08 - 2:30pm.
In my opinion, it's really very easy to turn a profit with very small revenue streams when the City of Knoxville is covering the operational costs and you get to keep the profit from the operation.
It's working very well for the downtown theatre (until the novelty wears off or football season starts, whichever comes first) and Mast General is doing rather well with somebody else covering the expense side of the ledger on certain items.
The Women's Basketball Hall of Fames marches gloriously onward with less than 15,000 admission paying vistors each year (which would be about 42 heads per day), but attendance figures are not made public because we would be shocked to see how few people actually pay to wander through the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.
If those were my choices, I'd probably go with Get Smart. But that's probably just my inner 16-year-old boy talking.
(P.S. I think you answered your own question, except, where are all the 16-year-old boys downtown?)
Sundown in the City?
Speaking of which, this letter to the editor snuck by me a couple of weeks ago, and didn't get remarked upon here. Brian Moran is a KPD officer and has just been re-elected state president of the FOP.
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
Knoxville News Sentinel (TN) - June 20, 2008
Recently while working during Sundown in the City, I had three parents approach me stating they had to find their children, one as young as 3 years old. The other two were 13-year-old girls.
To my amazement, when I asked the parents why they would bring their children to this event, one actually said that Sundown is for all ages.
I have had to work this so-called family event since it started, and I would submit to you that it is not a safe environment for children — or teenagers, for that matter.
Every single week, the police deal not only with drunken and disorderly adults but also underage drinkers.
These are not just on the Sundown in the City site but also in the parking lots and garages around the downtown area.
There is absolutely no excuse for any parent to have a small child in a crowd of thousands of drunks or to drop off their teenage children to let them roam the crowd of drunks without supervision.
This is most certainly not a family event and is not for all ages.
Add to all this the fact that a few years ago alcohol started being served at the Dogwood Arts Festival, another so-called family event, and now the fact that the powers that be are considering giving a beer license to Thompson-Boling Arena at the University of Tennessee, I would again submit that family events are on the way out.
In addition, we have what was a beautifully remodeled Tennessee Theatre that has now turned into a venue for booze during out-of-control concerts.
When did it become necessary to have alcohol at an event to make it a good event, and when did it become acceptable for parents to bring their children to events where they are surrounded by alcohol and drugs?
Brian Moran
I would guess it's because the theater won't stay open unless it makes money (or is further subsidized by the city), and they probably figure there's still not enough hipsters living downtown to support an all Sundance art film multiplex.
The movies you list are typical Hollywood summer movies that make money. Movies like the Kite Runner generally don't. It would be nice to have an art theater downtown, but until there's a large enough population of moviegoers with that mindset willing to support such a theater, your choice is going to be a (hopefully) self-sustaining theater that has to show Hollywood films in order to be self-sustaining, or an art theater that's forever subsidized by the public like the East Knox Farmer's Market, the convention center or the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.*
*It was still being heavily subsidized by the County last time I checked. If that is no longer the case I would happily withdraw that last example.
See previous remark re. 16-year-old movie goers downtown.
I guess they are trying to draw in folks from the 'burbs who might bring their kids?
At any rate, the (ironically named) Downtown West Cinema does pretty good business with high-profile arthouse/indie films. The ones I have been to are packed on opening days.
And I'm guessing, just looking around, they aren't your typical West Knox moviegoer demographic, so they mostly came from somewhere else and could just as easily come from somewhere else to (the real) downtown. Except for the parking. Oh my God, the parking! (What's that you say? There's abundant free parking downtown? Who knew?)
Also, don't they have multiple screens? Why couldn't they just set one of them up (like Downtown West) for arthouse/indie films and see what happens? They might be surprised.
It might be a question of operating costs and amortization. The Downtown West cinema is located on land that currently isn't all that valuable (see the occupancy rate at the strip mall across the street) especially in comparison with the prime downtown property where the new theater is located. Plus I wuld imagine that the cost of building the Downtown West cinema has been recouped by now, so the only cost of operating the place is the day-to-day cost of keeping the doors open.
Maybe in a few years when Regal's investment in the downtown theater has been recovered they will feel more free to show more interesting stuff. For now, I suspect they are in a profit-making mode.
All good points.
For some reason, this reminds me of a great marketing lesson from an IBM old timer.
Seems a local transit authority hired an MBA consultant right out of school to study whether they needed to add a train stop at this particular location. The consultant reported back that no, they didn't need to add a stop there because he went down there every day for a week and stood around all day and never once saw anyone waiting to catch the train.
Regal's investment is pretty minimal, isn't it? The city is on the hook for the building. Regal's investment, iirc, is in the furnishings -- seats and curtains and other portable stuff they could sell or pack up and take with them if they pulled out.
re: RNeals comment...agree. Why not have one screen showing Indie flicks?
Threadjack...re: the "new" farmers market...why the hell is it only open 1 day a week for 3 hours? (TR 4-7pm). Who has time to visit it during that time period in the middle of the week?
Hancock is GOOOOOODDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought we would go to this theater all the time. We never go - because every time we think about going to the movies, this is the crap that's on.
Like several of you, I don't understand why they can't take one auditorium (I believe the small one is only about 100 seats) and show "art" films ("art" in quotations because a lot of the movies I want to see aren't even art movies; they're just movies for grownups).
There's clearly a market for it. My only guess is that they need/want to keep filling up DW and figure attendance there will drop off if they show those moves DT.
But in our case it's more like we won't see the movie in the theater at all; we'll just wait for the DVD.
Rachel, I know you are a big library person, so I'll address this open question to you:
Why isn't the library showing movie classics on Market Square this summer? I've been given to understand that it's because Regal objected to the "competition." Although my source is very reliable, I find it hard to believe that anybody jonesing to see "Wanted" would be seduced into watching "The African Queen" for free on Market Square instead.
So that takes me back to my original question: does Regal have thepower to dictate what happens downtown?
I left Friends of the Library over a year ago, so I'm out of that loop now. But I thought the library was going back to Movies on Market Square Fridays this fall (they did Thursdays last fall to placate Regal).
At any rate, "Movies" has always been a fall, not a summer, deal.
The shiny, new theater downtown is showing first run, popular movies? Horrors! Yes, they should devote a screen or two to independent films, but it could be so much worse. It could be a grungy dollar theater.
Sundown is NOT family friendly. I was expecting something similar to Memphis in May and found a moshpit of smoking teens. Well, most of them were just using cigarettes as fashion accessories, but it was still a hill of fire ants.
I figured Moran was a disgruntled cop or security guard, but he did not say that in his letter. What a jerk. There are annoying people at Sundown, but I've never seen anyone scary or out of control in 10 years. As for the theatre, I don't think it was meant to cater to the artsy crowd. Some of its success seems to be that it draws teens and families from the burbs. If its OK for the burb theatres to carry crap it should be OK for the Riveria.
That said, currently I would not pay 8.50$ for any movie, that's 2 gallons of gas or a couple of local concerts.
Also, I wish that people would use the term "child friendly" when referring to safe or fun for kids. To some people "family" events may be them and their drunk uncle, lesbian grandma or whatever.
Brian Moran is one of the best cops I have ever met. He's smart and fearless and has never hesitated to speak his mind, even if it means taking on a sacred cow.
That's probably why he's president of the Tennessee Fraternal Order of Police.
I cannot think of anybody I'd rather have get my back than Brian. I don't agree with him about every single issue -- he lobbied hard for the deputies' pension reform, for example -- but he always does a good job of defending the positions he takes, and he has a reputation as a standup guy. His views of Sundown should not be dismissed lightly.
but I disagree strongly with his opinion of Sundown. My daughter (age 7) and I just almost "regulars" at Sundown. If I like what I hear of one of the announced bands on YouTube or MySpace, then it's a Thursday Night father-daughter outing in the offing. Was it last year that Brazil Girls came through? That one concert was probably the best musical experience in her life. This year, her favorite has been the Presidents of the United States.
There are some folks there who have had a few too many - almost certainly before they even got there. There are some teenagers being teenagers there, but nothing that I would elevate to the level of "rowdy" by teenager standards. By old fogie like me standards, yes, a little rowdy. By me at 16 or 17 standards? Not even close to rowdy. If you're packing the kids, there are some survival tips for Sundown that I share with my fellow mommies and daddies.
1. Go Early. We target 6:00pm or before.
2. Hit the souvenir stands and shops immediately or not at all.
3. Load up right away on child comfort foods and beverages.
4. Bring folding chairs.
5. Stake out a spot fairly near the front but well off the yellow tape and in the center away from the pedestrian aisles.
6. Hit the port-a-johns early... and repeat just as the crowds start to swell.
7. Once the crowds are there, stay in the area you've staked out until you leave. The pedestrian aisles and the dance area beyond the yellow tape can be a bit much for young children.
8. You won't see the band. Your child won't see the band. Accept it. Watch the child singing and dancing and snacking and realize music can be fun just being heard.
9. Sundown has unofficial "zones." Remember this, learn them, abide by them, and everyone from unaccompanied teenagers to grandparents towing toddlers can have a great time.
As for the Downtown Movies, unless we're going to I-Max or a drive-in, I pretty well always take my girl to the downtown cinema. They usually have at least one or two kid friendly films showing, we can hit the candy bins at Mast and do a pizza at Tomato Head. She even likes the escalator ride up from the State Street garage. I admit I'm not an art film guy, or even a movie guy. When I want art, I see a concert or a play - or combine the two and catch an opera. I'm just along for the daddy date at the movies. For that reason, I'm content to let Regal follow whatever business model they believe makes the most sense for that site. They're the theater business experts, not me. I'm just happy we have one downtown.
So, you have a problem with drunk lesbian grandmas? :)
Wall-E is a great film. An ET for a new generation. I think folks of all ages would actually really like this film.
Get Smart is very stupid and not worth seeing.
Hancock is a great film, as well. I mean, it is not a blockbuster that will win any awards but it is not just a stupid film for teenage boys, by any stretch.
How about this? Step outside your box and see a film made for the masses - you might enjoy yourself.
- An actual downtown resident who supports the Regal and it's choices
Get Smart was a lot more fun than I was expecting. Ebert really liked it too.
Wall-E is on my want-to-see list and I'll give Hancock a shot if it works out that I want to see a movie when it's showing.
Given all that, I'm still really disappointed with the selection. I had hoped that we'd get one art screen out of the deal. Columbia, SC has the theater we need. Their 77 seats would fit in just about any storefront without a whole lot more build-out than the Tennessee Stage Company is doing on Market Square this weekend for Shakespeare on the Square. Getting memberships and donations to finance the rent, hardware and movies would be the challenging part, particularly going into competition with the mayor.
I have to disagree on Get Smart. It was brilliantly done! If you ever watched the original tv series, you'll fall out of your chair laughing. I was in tears at points. If you have never seen the tv series, it is still hilarious. This is not an Airplane movie. It has its goofy moments but that's simply true to the character. The cameo is well done. References to the tv series are throughout the movie but not at all over played. I'd pay to see Get Smart in the theater a 2nd time.
I've now seen Wall-E twice and give it thumbs up. It definitely carries some messages that justifiably have some conservatives up in arms such as a couple of in-your-face pokes at GW. The story's underlying message is also not subtle. Overall, its a good, fun story and worth the watch.
Haven't seen Hancock yet but am looking forward to taking my wife out on a date for it.
Doug McCaughan
Link...
I'm glad Betty asked. The last time the Riviera topic came up here, I was pretty skeptical about it. We never were able to find a movie we wanted to see, except once when the movie left after a week and before we could see it. I also questioned whether 6 screens or whatever would be a quality experience. And I, too, still think they need a screen devoted to indie flicks. However, we finally saw our first flick there last Sunday-- Wall-E. I agree with the poster above: It is wonderful. I've even thought about it a lot more in the last few days. Like Cars and other Pixar films, a lot of tangential social questions are raised (read: it's a little moralistic, but in a very good way). I liked ET in its day, but I don't think it endures all that well. I hope Wall-E does much better in that regard. As they say, go!
Regarding the theater itself, I was very pleasantly surprised. From the Axelerator hand dryers in the rest rooms to the screen quality, it was first rate. I don't know if all the screens are equally large (doubt they could be), but I don't know how they squeezed even one in as large as the screen that was showing Wall-E. Along with the "stadium" angle, the visual quality was such that it looked like you could "fall in" to the screen when there were shots of things like outer space. The sound quality was very good, but of course as always, we had to stuff kleenex into our ears due to the excessive volume level. I'm still waiting for OSHA or a class action suit to force movie theaters to lower the SPL to a safe level. They are really stuck on thinking louder is better. How stupid. I think they're seriously causing people to go deaf, and I know about this stuff, trust me.
Also, I pretty much agree w/ Mr. Moran (he's not one of those "morans") re Sundown. 'Nuff said there.
I'm not much of a movie goer, but Hancock sounds pretty good. How can they go wrong with Will Smith, Charlize Theron, and Jason Bateman. Then there's Peter Berg as the director. I think Will Smith is one of the best actors of his generation.
I also find it hard sometimes to find the kind of movies I like downtown, but that doesn't diminish the fact that I am thrilled to have the Stadium there on Gay Street. I'm always surprised to see how many people utilize it, and the fact that families are actually coming downtown makes me glad.
I love the feeling of walking into a downtown movie. I guess it satisfies my inner-urban. It's also a very nice facility with great seats. I thought the sound was a bit lower than some I've been to. I know most people are deaf now, but for those of us who aren't, the high decibels can be very painful.
I hope they someday do set aside one of the theaters for independent films. I think they'd even find it profitable. In the meantime though I love the new theater and go there much more often than I ever did Downtown West.
Unbelievable! The downtown cinema is playing "summer blockbuster" movies! Those will never appeal to the tragically hip or the middle-aged curmdgeonly crowd! They should be ashamed.
Even more unbelievable! A police officer thinks families should stay away from public events where alcohol is available! Some adults might drink too much! Some teenagers might try to get some of that fire water for themselves!
Myopia is a horrible thing, isn't it?
Betty, you just practically named last week's Top 10. Why would the Riviera voluntarily screen smaller audience ? And why would we want them to do so, considering the goal is to draw the masses downtown.
If they wanted to screen 1 I'd say No Problem, but more than that would be a waste of space downtown. Most movie-goers are wanting to see the latest adventures of the Dark Knight and Indy and could really give a damn about 9/10 of the movies at Downtown West.
I see both types. I've been a big movie fan and have for a long time.. even with a 16 mo. old. Her first movie - at 5 weeks - was Blades Of Glory if any of you wish to weep for humanity or call some nimrod from whatever governmental organization keeps tabs on parents.
Knock yourself -- and your kid -- out. Macht nicht to me (unless I happen to be sitting behind you when the baby decides to register indignation at being forcefed your cinematic choice of the evening). I took my kids to see Blazing Saddles and The Jerk at the drive-in. Warped them, it did.
Actually, I don't have a clue what Blades of Glory even was, so it's OK with me that I saved $10 and two hours (I'm in a demographic that makes me understand that time is a finite thing, Jay, so two hours wasted here and two more squandered there - pretty soon you're cutting into my life expectancy).
Meanwhile, I'm still on the lookout for a downtown movie I'd like to see.
* Looked Blades of Glory up on Rotten Tomatoes -- here's the verdict:
"CONSENSUS: With a talented cast, Blades of Glory successfully milks its one-joke premise into a feature-length comedy"
But I couldn't resist.
Personally, the thing I detest these days is the # of PG-13 vs. R films made. Die Hard IV being the most prominent example. I too am being demographic'd out.
are absolute classics. Wish I could take my kids to the same quality...
When I worked at the Grove theater, we wanted to get documentary and art house film for the local egg heads. Our company just couldn't get a deal. Partly, the big studios wanted us to take the films they knew were gonna take to also get the better preforming films. There was also the tactic of making us keep movies as long as possible to keep the other studios films from getting a screen.
Heck, even Atlanta has trouble keeping an art house screen open.
But WALL-e is a fine movie. Pixar shows its the master of computer animated films and worth paying full price.
Get Smart isnt perfect, but a decently funny movie with some cute sight gags, and old time fans will love the Easter eggs in the movie(in this case, Easter eggs are props, sight gags or cameos in the movie)
Hancock was decent, and a pretty good send up of the superHero movie, but I think the plot holes and storyline was a bit off and some times just didnt make sense and broke its own rules.
Wanted is a great action movie, if you didnt read the original comic book/ graphic novel. I didnt like the changes, but on its own, its a fine shoot em up and I can look at Angelina all day..
No Matter Where you go, There you Are!!!!
...and watch some great movies like this on hulu.com:
Link...
guess we're just low class, non-artsy, mindless robots, but we've seen summer blockbusters and other good movies there...Spyderwick Chronicles comes to mind, for one.
Took the 9 year old and his friend to see Indiana Jones...a bit formula, but the boys thoroughly enjoyed it. Then we walked over to Marble Slab, got some 'scream, and had a good day. With the movie stub, parking was free.
I love the Riviera. I guess there may be a market for an art film house, but I know the Terrace Tap didn't end up making it, and they served drinks. Remember taking Faith there on a date in 1993 to see "Faster Pussycat, Kill, Kill."
No reason to diss a mass-market movie house just because it doesn't ascribe to a certain niche market. We need a little mass market downtown, don't we?
we've got a city government that will throw money around downtown like a drunker sailor and a family like the Haslam clan that will buy up the obligations on a deal that will never really make them a dime.
When the curtain comes down on the downtown cinema or when the shows really aren't something you're interested in, realize that downtown theatres really don't work in real downtowns anyway. The Church Street cinemas never lasted very long on downtown Nashville either.
Link...
As best I recall, there were never any theaters in the Church Street Center.
Btw, as opposed to a "real downtown," Peabody Place is a giant indoor indoor mall plopped down into the city center:
Link...
"he project covers eight city blocks in total, with restored historic buildings, a 15-story modern office tower, top-notch apartments, prestigious offices, popular restaurants and gathering places. In all, more than two million square feet connected by skywalks, corridors and trolley stations make Peabody Place a virtual city within a city...At the heart of it all is Peabody Place Retail & Entertainment Center. The Center, completed in fall 2001, was designed to be reminiscent of a town square, which was rediscovered, refurbished and topped with the largest skylight in Tennessee to create an enclosed town square. At night, the lighting systems create the atmosphere that the Center really is outdoors, with abundant sidewalk cafes and other seating. The Center boasts over 300,000 square feet of leasable retail space and is directly connected to approximately 3,000 parking spaces. It is also located immediately adjacent to the historic Peabody Hotel."
Skywalks? A town square covered in glass? Adjacent to a big hotel? Why didn't Knoxville think of that?
But... it has the largest skylight in Tennessee!! And they even provided a faux outdoor nightime.
Geez, what more do you want?
But wait, there's more:
Link...
The 22-screen Malco Muvico theater complex in Memphis closed Sunday after seven years in business. It's sad, but I don't think they showed "art" films on any of those 22 screens, not that that would have saved it. The "art" place is Studio on the Square in Midtown, which has I think only 5 screens but is doing a booming business. John Beifuss of The Commercial Appeal has a good article about the downtown theater closing at commercialappeal.com
The Peabody is located in downtown Memphis. That is the edge of the city. Nobody in Memphis considers the downtown area the "center" of the city. If you WALK too far out of downtown Memphis, you are in another state! Other areas are much more heavily utilized and there are a lot of people who never, ever go downtown.
I was in Memphis a few weeks ago. Peabody Place seems to be struggling. I noted a few closed stores. There are fun things to do in downtown Memphis, but downtown is a long way from where most of the target audience lives, with a lot of theaters, malls, etc. in between. Special events like concerts and sporting events (Auto Zone Field, Fed Ex Forum) are the best draws. There are a few nice/fun restaurants and the clubs on Beale Street (which always seem to appeal more to tourists than Memphians). But, a movie theater combined with a cluster of a few mall-type stores in downtown Memphis has some obstacles.
I believe Chattanooga's downtown movie theater is still doing well.
In Knoxville, there are (hopefully) plenty enough people within a few miles of downtown to support a first-run movie theater. These are people who will go downtown instead of heading west or to the East Town area. This is different (and maybe better) than Memphis or Chattanooga. Plus, there are other things to see and do downtown, including a few good places to eat before or after.
Regal is trying to make a profit. The problem with putting one 'art' film at the downtown Regal is which one do you choose that will draw enough and not simply cannibalize Downtown West, thus screwing up the 'art' film center which seems to be doing ok. I suspect Regal knows based on the numbers at Downtown West (and the zillions of other theaters Regal owns) what sells. Here's hoping they make it work.
I've heard from a reliable source that The Riviera is Regal's second best money-earner (profit-per-screen) in the state, trailing only the Pinnacle at Turkey Creek. So, apparently their programming works. The bad news is that their success means they're unlikely to turn over any screens to art fare.
Long Pauses
Name one art house in the United States that is new construction. Inevitably, in every town (including Knoxville) they are relegated to cinemas that were unable to compete on the commercial level and passed out of favor. Regal's already getting the indy watchers at Downtown West. Why would they split the audience and take away the only product that keeps that theater open
I'd like to see more indy/arthouse stuff downtown, too. But I ain't holding my breath. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective.
~m.
In my opinion, it's really very easy to turn a profit with very small revenue streams when the City of Knoxville is covering the operational costs and you get to keep the profit from the operation.
It's working very well for the downtown theatre (until the novelty wears off or football season starts, whichever comes first) and Mast General is doing rather well with somebody else covering the expense side of the ledger on certain items.
The Women's Basketball Hall of Fames marches gloriously onward with less than 15,000 admission paying vistors each year (which would be about 42 heads per day), but attendance figures are not made public because we would be shocked to see how few people actually pay to wander through the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame.
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